So if you went back and mess with things you would change YOUR QUANTUM REALITY and NOT create another one. It also deals with the sticky problem of where the energy for the universe to split comes from the other version of MWT has. Feynman’s multiple history version of Many World theory is one such example. So MWT is not as simple as it is being made out to be. There are variants on exactly WHAT it is and one variant explains the old methods of Time Travel but not this one.
Actually in Bell’s Theorem form Quantum Physics you have three outcomes: superlubminal, superdeterminism, and many worlds theory. Most of the previous Star Trek time travel stories combined the superdeterminism and many worlds theory models with Data in “Parallels” explaining “all possibilities do happen IN DIFFERENT QUANTUM REALITIES” and that this “quantum signature is CONSTANT *and cannot be changed*” The old method was backed up by QP as well.
So yes, messing about with history WILL create an alternate timeline. In this case, Nero attempted to alter history, but did so in the wrong universe. Anyway we could debate this all our lives dude any Star Trek fan is more than aware that it’s world has made a living contradicting itself. It is Sci Fi after all so let’s just enjoy it for what it meant to be. A new start for a new generation of fans.
True but as Z has already pointed out this story is based on quantum theory. According to quantum theory, an alternate, parallel universe is created every time a decision is made. Meaning there are, in theory, an infinite number of variant universes running parallel to each other. Some with only minor differences, some with major differences depending on the weight of the alterations. Such as in his butterfly example.
Actually we don’t know that because the”rules” were the time traveler wasn’t effected by the changes they made as long as they stayed in the past. See “City on the Edge of Forever” “Yesterday’s Enterprise”, “First Contact” and “Past Tense” to see how travelers are “protected” from the changes in the timeline when they are in the past.
Ahh well I stand corrected but if I’m not mistaken my point still rings true. The original Star Trek universe remains in tact if not old Spock & Nero would have been effected by the changes which they were not.
Actually no parallel universe does NOT mean parallel time line. Parallel universes can have different physical laws while parallel time lines are simply variants on the base timeline. GURPS Infinite Worlds explains this very well in far greater detail then I can in 500 characters.
I love Trek (Voyager) and Star Wars, so I liked this more bombastic approach. Its also why I like VOY: it has action AND cerebral thinking, which is fucking awesome, instead of just showing people sitting around a table talking FOREVER. (I’m looking at you, TNG. And I’m yawning.) The new movie is a different take on the old, and I applaud that.
LOL @ ‘Nobody pops out of the womb being able to fucking fly the Enterprise right off the bat, it takes practise!’
Okay that whole thing, is stupid, it’s not real, its all good and fun, and to be honest, those who love star trek but hate star wars, will be upset when they see the star wars easter eggs in star trek.
dude ur the greatest i love ur reviews but i hate this movie i hate it with every fiber pf y being being i hate this movie and i hate jj abrahms im sorry i love trek especialy ds9 to be fair its a good movie just dont callit trek i feel to this movie like u feel anbout the new battle satr galactica i cant accept it s trek
I am a sci-fi fan but I have never really delved into Star Trek because I did not know where to start. This fantastic review has definitely made me more eager to start right from the beginning. Also hearing how good the reboot is to the franchise also helps. Also being able to start at the beginning with new blu ray sets is not a bad way to start.
Seriously?
You don’t effect me, you are just words on a screen and i could give a fuck about what you think. My teeth aren’t fake, I also am not under the belief that i am a ‘vampire’ i like body mod’s and that is the extent of it. And yes you are FUCKING STUPID, just look at the horrible spelling ur and baout? hahaha
Thanks! I actually enjoyed your Citizen Kane rant too, btw. Even though it’s one of my all time fave movies… “Hey, want to see the Greatest Movie of ALL TIME?” lol! I love it, as a significant piece of movie history (and just as a film, but I’m a sucker for Orson Welles just generally), I actually hated it when I first sa it too, it grew on me later. But that said, yes I do think the AFI lists could definitely use some updating. And yes, Memento is amazing!
Alright, ENOUGH. I left you unblocked simply because you’ve been a viewer of mine for a while, and I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. For all I know your comment might have been the result of a bad day, it happens. but clearly you’re just an asshole. If you’re so fucking shallow that you can’t look past someone’s APPEARANCE and listen to what they have to say, then I truly pity you. Goodbye, kindly stay off my channel.
And finally, for the LAST TIME – it’s not a time travel story. It’s an alternate universe story. Or more specifically, and alternate reality story. The time travel “rules” as they apply within the context of those OTHER stories does not apply, because it is not even CLOSE to the same thing. So no, those episodes don’t conform to it because A) they’re based on mumbo jumbo sci-fi “science” rather than ACTUAL THEORY like the new one is, and B) they are TIME TRAVEL stories, which this ISN’T.
Exactly,. So current Trek is adapting its science to conform to CURRENT scientific theory. Just as it has always done in the past. Not everything is going to match up perfectly, it can’t when you’re dealing with 43 years’ worth of stories. It hasn’t matched up in the past, it doesn’t match up perfectly now, but the point is…WHO CARES! It’s an entertaining film, it’s a new lease on life for these classic characters, and it exists outside previous Trek continuity. End of story.
Sigh…so you want me to explain a science fiction concept based on CURRENT scientific theory in relation to science fiction from 43 years ago? Star Trek continuity has been ret-conned and re-arranged so many times it boggles the mind to even try to wrap one’s head around it and make sense of it all. Accept it or not, the new movie IS a parallel universe. The writers say so, SPOCK says so IN the movie, and every online Trek resource out there says so. I’m done, have fun.
Dude come down, parallel universe means parallel time line, nothing else from other shows or movies matter. Everything in that time line remains unchanged. If that wren’t the case old Spock & Nero would have been affected by the changes in this universe which they weren’t.
Maximara said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
So if you went back and mess with things you would change YOUR QUANTUM REALITY and NOT create another one. It also deals with the sticky problem of where the energy for the universe to split comes from the other version of MWT has. Feynman’s multiple history version of Many World theory is one such example. So MWT is not as simple as it is being made out to be. There are variants on exactly WHAT it is and one variant explains the old methods of Time Travel but not this one.
Maximara said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Actually in Bell’s Theorem form Quantum Physics you have three outcomes: superlubminal, superdeterminism, and many worlds theory. Most of the previous Star Trek time travel stories combined the superdeterminism and many worlds theory models with Data in “Parallels” explaining “all possibilities do happen IN DIFFERENT QUANTUM REALITIES” and that this “quantum signature is CONSTANT *and cannot be changed*” The old method was backed up by QP as well.
RazMansReality said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
So yes, messing about with history WILL create an alternate timeline. In this case, Nero attempted to alter history, but did so in the wrong universe. Anyway we could debate this all our lives dude any Star Trek fan is more than aware that it’s world has made a living contradicting itself. It is Sci Fi after all so let’s just enjoy it for what it meant to be. A new start for a new generation of fans.
RazMansReality said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
True but as Z has already pointed out this story is based on quantum theory. According to quantum theory, an alternate, parallel universe is created every time a decision is made. Meaning there are, in theory, an infinite number of variant universes running parallel to each other. Some with only minor differences, some with major differences depending on the weight of the alterations. Such as in his butterfly example.
Maximara said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Actually we don’t know that because the”rules” were the time traveler wasn’t effected by the changes they made as long as they stayed in the past. See “City on the Edge of Forever” “Yesterday’s Enterprise”, “First Contact” and “Past Tense” to see how travelers are “protected” from the changes in the timeline when they are in the past.
RazMansReality said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Ahh well I stand corrected but if I’m not mistaken my point still rings true. The original Star Trek universe remains in tact if not old Spock & Nero would have been effected by the changes which they were not.
Maximara said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Actually no parallel universe does NOT mean parallel time line. Parallel universes can have different physical laws while parallel time lines are simply variants on the base timeline. GURPS Infinite Worlds explains this very well in far greater detail then I can in 500 characters.
USSJaneway said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Nice review you two, I enjoyed it.
I love Trek (Voyager) and Star Wars, so I liked this more bombastic approach. Its also why I like VOY: it has action AND cerebral thinking, which is fucking awesome, instead of just showing people sitting around a table talking FOREVER. (I’m looking at you, TNG. And I’m yawning.) The new movie is a different take on the old, and I applaud that.
LOL @ ‘Nobody pops out of the womb being able to fucking fly the Enterprise right off the bat, it takes practise!’
SBaby said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
3:44 – Sort of like the Sonic multiverse.
SBaby said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
1:04 – Fanboyish? That’d be a good word to use.
sagasky said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Okay that whole thing, is stupid, it’s not real, its all good and fun, and to be honest, those who love star trek but hate star wars, will be upset when they see the star wars easter eggs in star trek.
sagasky said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Bet he blew a gasket when he saw the tiger guy off ripleys believe it or not..
theanimecollector555 said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
What do you think of war between Star Trek nerds and Stars Wars nerds. They will kill eacheach in the name of the movies and the show, look it up.
tristar1215 said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
dude ur the greatest i love ur reviews but i hate this movie i hate it with every fiber pf y being being i hate this movie and i hate jj abrahms im sorry i love trek especialy ds9 to be fair its a good movie just dont callit trek i feel to this movie like u feel anbout the new battle satr galactica i cant accept it s trek
Cabzilla06 said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
I am a sci-fi fan but I have never really delved into Star Trek because I did not know where to start. This fantastic review has definitely made me more eager to start right from the beginning. Also hearing how good the reboot is to the franchise also helps. Also being able to start at the beginning with new blu ray sets is not a bad way to start.
DavidPrime83 said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Dumb ass
DavidPrime83 said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
I Don’t Know, I Kind of like the teeth? love the review!
Decadent7 said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Seriously?
You don’t effect me, you are just words on a screen and i could give a fuck about what you think. My teeth aren’t fake, I also am not under the belief that i am a ‘vampire’ i like body mod’s and that is the extent of it. And yes you are FUCKING STUPID, just look at the horrible spelling ur and baout? hahaha
Zaranyzerak said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Thanks! I actually enjoyed your Citizen Kane rant too, btw. Even though it’s one of my all time fave movies…
“Hey, want to see the Greatest Movie of ALL TIME?” lol! I love it, as a significant piece of movie history (and just as a film, but I’m a sucker for Orson Welles just generally), I actually hated it when I first sa it too, it grew on me later. But that said, yes I do think the AFI lists could definitely use some updating. And yes, Memento is amazing!
Zaranyzerak said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Yep, add that one to the plot hole list…hehehe.
Zaranyzerak said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Alright, ENOUGH. I left you unblocked simply because you’ve been a viewer of mine for a while, and I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. For all I know your comment might have been the result of a bad day, it happens. but clearly you’re just an asshole. If you’re so fucking shallow that you can’t look past someone’s APPEARANCE and listen to what they have to say, then I truly pity you. Goodbye, kindly stay off my channel.
Zaranyzerak said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
And finally, for the LAST TIME – it’s not a time travel story. It’s an alternate universe story. Or more specifically, and alternate reality story. The time travel “rules” as they apply within the context of those OTHER stories does not apply, because it is not even CLOSE to the same thing. So no, those episodes don’t conform to it because A) they’re based on mumbo jumbo sci-fi “science” rather than ACTUAL THEORY like the new one is, and B) they are TIME TRAVEL stories, which this ISN’T.
Zaranyzerak said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Exactly,. So current Trek is adapting its science to conform to CURRENT scientific theory. Just as it has always done in the past. Not everything is going to match up perfectly, it can’t when you’re dealing with 43 years’ worth of stories. It hasn’t matched up in the past, it doesn’t match up perfectly now, but the point is…WHO CARES! It’s an entertaining film, it’s a new lease on life for these classic characters, and it exists outside previous Trek continuity. End of story.
Zaranyzerak said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Sigh…so you want me to explain a science fiction concept based on CURRENT scientific theory in relation to science fiction from 43 years ago? Star Trek continuity has been ret-conned and re-arranged so many times it boggles the mind to even try to wrap one’s head around it and make sense of it all. Accept it or not, the new movie IS a parallel universe. The writers say so, SPOCK says so IN the movie, and every online Trek resource out there says so. I’m done, have fun.
RazMansReality said
July 7 2009 @ 9:24 pm
Dude come down, parallel universe means parallel time line, nothing else from other shows or movies matter. Everything in that time line remains unchanged. If that wren’t the case old Spock & Nero would have been affected by the changes in this universe which they weren’t.